Wise Leadership with Dr. Sujata Ives

In this podcast episode, Melissa Venable, NCDA's Director of Professional Development, interviews Dr. Sujata Ives, a private practitioner at Connect The Neuro-Dots who specializes in employment psychology. Dr. Ives discusses the influence of her worldview, shaped by her vocal cord disability and bicultural background, on her career development work. She emphasizes the importance of understanding and articulating one's worldview and provides strategies for maintaining a positive worldview amid challenges. Dr. Ives introduces concepts from her latest book, Wisdom to Know the Difference, including perspicacious intelligence, which blends sharp discernment with emotional and ethical insights. She offers actionable advice for career development professionals, such as using active and reflective listening, insight-based questions, and mindfulness practices. The episode concludes with Dr. Ives encouraging listeners to define wise leadership for themselves and integrate deep insight with ethical clarity in their professional lives.

Dr. Sujata Ives, PhD, CCC, GCDFI, OWDSI is an awarded career services leader, certified employment psychologist, and professional speaker with a distinctive voice. Through her vocal disability, she inspires as a work, life, and success Guru.

She is a pursued national and international speaker that has published three books. Activate Success – Tips, tools, & insights to be a Leader in Your Niche made the international best-selling status on Amazon and Kindle. There is a Workbook by the same title. Her second book is “Wisdom To Know The Difference”. 

Sujata is the 2025 recipient of the All-Star Award from the Maryland Counseling Association. 2023 recipient of the National Career Development Association’s (NCDA) Diversity Initiative Award. She was chosen to participate in the 2024 NCDA Leadership Academy class, where she conducted a study through a needs analysis on intercultural leadership. As a result, she wrote and published two best-selling books and a workbook. 

As a military spouse, she collaborated with military and community leaders through her nineteen moves on three different continents that gave her the opportunity to help multi-million-dollar systems. She leverages global talent to hold candid conversations regarding interculturalism and peacebuilding. In this vein, she was the 2023 recipient of the title “Global Visionary” given to her by the 6th Congress, OtroMundo, Colombia, South America.

Sujata is the Chair of the Leadership Academy of the NCDA; the Chair of the Program Committee of the APCDA; Community Coordinator of the World Council on Global & Intercultural Competency, UNESCO. 

Sujata is past president of the Maryland Career Development Association, past chair of the International Committee of the American Counseling Association. And treasurer for the Maryland Counseling Association. 

Sujata has an earned Ph.D. in Educational Psychology, is a Harvard trained Mediator, and Johns Hopkins trained in leadership and supervision. 

She has a limited private practice and can be reached for counseling and keynote-speaking at www.drsujataives.com.

Resources

• Wisdom to Know the Difference

Transcript

Career Practitioner Conversations

National Career Development Association

Wise Leadership with Dr. Sujata Ives

Released on November 18, 2025

Welcome to the podcast. I'm Melissa Venable, NCDA, director of Professional Development, and it is my pleasure to be here today with my guest, Dr. Sujata Ives. Dr. Ives is in private practice at connecting the neuro dots and specializes in employment psychology. She's an active member and leader, not only with NCDA, where she currently chairs a leadership academy, but also the Asia Pacific Career Development Association as the programming chair and Maryland Career Development Association, where she is a past president and current treasurer.

Sujata is the author of Activate Success Tips, tools and Insights to be a leader in Your niche, which came out of her time as a Leadership Academy participant, and just last month she published Wisdom to Know the Difference. 

Let's, jump right in. You've been a guest on this podcast before and we've talked about worldview as a concept. We've talked about your worldview  how important that is when you're thinking about career development work. So tell me, tell us, how has your worldview influenced your work?

Thank you so much, Melissa. I want the new listeners to know that I have a condition where my vocal cords do not close, and that makes my voice wiggle a little bit.

How has my worldview influenced my work? Great question, and I want to first state what a world view is for those who didn't hear my first podcast with you. A, uh, worldview is a person's unique and fundamental beliefs and values that shape how they interpret their perceptions and interact with the world.

The brain perceives judges and senses. All day and all night long. A formulated worldview influences goals and ethics and behaviors, and that provides a guiding framework for understanding life so that the person can make decisions and solve problems. So how people interpret their perception, because for us as human beings, it's all about perception, perception, perception.

So how they interpret their perception, great greatly impacts the way they view the world they live in. It can honestly, it can make or break them. It can certainly reveal them. It can be a downfall or an up fall. I encourage listeners to write down their world view today if they have never written it down.

It's very important. So as an employment psychologist with a humanistic worldview, I believe that every individual has inherent worth potential and the capacity for growth, everyone. And I truly believe that man will do good when given a chance. This perspective emphasizes personal agency self-actualization, and the fundamental human need for meaningful work.

You know, this is all Maslow, right? And I a hundred percent agree with Maslow. So in the workplace, employees. Um, they're not merely cogs in a system, but as whole persons with emotional, psychological, and social needs that deserve recognition and, uh, support. So work is much more than the means to earn not living for me.

From my world worldview, it is a vital space for self-expression, for development, and for fulfillment. So what I'm trying to do here at NCDA and in my private practice, um, is to strive to create environments where individuals feel respected and empowered and genuinely valued. And I do this by being aware of my worldview.

Which is made up of my schema and my bias. So if you go into a conversation thinking that you know what's best for the person. You have to take a step back. You have to be open to listen and to receive what that person is telling you. What is important to that person. And incidentally, this is for the workplace, but also for personal life, isn't it?

Certainly in the large organization, the mission, the vision should keep. Everybody on track for their collective work goals, but also think about what are your personal goals for yourself as an individual and also for yourself within a family. So I'm advocating here today for learning, uh, how to listen to, uh, different world views through wise leadership.

And there are many, many, many styles of leadership that I discussed in the first book, activate Success mean how do you get along with people, especially your boss? So that was the premise of the first book and the second book, wisdom to Know the Difference. I'm advocating for wise leadership. I want to support the development of workplaces where people can thrive, contribute authentically, and experience that sense of purpose.

That's so important. I do believe that not only enhances individual wellbeing, but also drives sustainability. So ultimately my humanistic worldview means approaching each employee with empathy and curiosity rather than impatience or disdain. Please, please, please, I'm encouraging a reflective practice, , that.

That can foster more opportunities for, , understanding, for learning, and for growth for both personally and professionally. So, parents might say they treat their children the same, and bosses say the same thing. They think that they need to treat their employees the same, but that doesn't work.

That's not a wise leadership. You can't treat people the same because they each have different values. If you, uh, go about, uh, recognizing everybody except. , Maybe there are some introverts in on the team that don't want the recognition, they don't want their picture on the wall. You will have really disappointed them.

So it's very important to know what people value you instead of just, , assuming. And, um, this is where membership surveys are. Essential. They are critical in understanding at the individual level of what members want, , what clients want, , what your family wants, you know, take those surveys. Those membership surveys, , are so very important for, , sustainability.

 I love this approach . And I think it's terribly important right now  in the world for us all to think about. Now, what only you're asking us to do is to really figure out what is our, you know, what are we sharing with the world? What is everyone else sharing?

What is each person that we're encountering sharing? So     How is your worldview changing  or challenged right now?

Society often challenges my humanistic worldview through systems, through structures that prioritize profit. Over individual wellbeing and human dignity. In many workplaces, people are treated as interchangeable parts rather than as unique individuals that come through the door with their unique stories, uh, their families, their needs, and their aspirations.

Um, dehumanization can manifest rigid hierarchies, lack of autonomy, toxic cultures, and burnout and such norms conflict totally with my beliefs and my worldview, and the importance of meaningful work and holistic support for. Clients and for members and holistic and human-centered approaches, um, in many settings, societal narratives around success and money as worth.

Can undermine the humanistic emphasis on intrinsic motivation and personal growth. There's often a strong external pressure to conform to predefined. Paths of achievement that are measured by job titles rather than encouraging individuals to pursue work that aligns with their authentic selves. And these cultural values can discourage self-reflection and diminish the importance of purpose, passion, and wellbeing, which are absolutely central to my worldview as an employment psychologist Now.

Don't get me wrong, money is critical. It's very important. Don't, um, you know, think that I, I don't know the importance of paying your mortgage or your groceries, but please understand that money is a tool. It should not be the sole goal because you'll end up as a case study that's akin to the psychology of Scrooge.

Okay, so, , lastly, systemic inequalities. Further challenge the humanistic ideal for equal potential and opportunity for all. I mean, that's why my parents, my agreed here, we came here when I was 10 years old because of that Pledge of Allegiance, right? Justice for all opportunity and potential for all.

And while I believe that every person has the capacity for growth and fulfillment, , there are societal barriers, , that, um, often limit access to supportive environments and career development. And this dissonance between the ideal, uh, forces me to confront difficult truths. Adapt my practice to advocate not only for individual empowerment, but also for structural change.

, I hope that a day comes in the future where I can run for the NCDA presidency because these are the values and this is the worldview that I want to bring to the. Table.

When a worldview is challenged, especially one that's rooted in humanistic values, a few key priorities come, uh, become essential to maintain both integrity and effective.

Nice. So in this book, wisdom to Know the difference, self reflection and openness is one of the first priorities, , on , how to medicate that challenge, that feeling of dissonance or threat. Remaining open to feedback, open to perspectives, instead of just being negative and saying that you dislike.

Because that will get you even more further into your limbic system, your emotional discomfort. So we don't want that. We want the self-reflection and openness to lead to growth, and to lead to perspicacity, to the wise mind. I want people to stay grounded in their core values. Yes, but not to the point of detriment.

You cannot scream your core values with negativity, but rather through passive resistance, not in violence philosophy that comes from Maha Gandhi and was adopted by Martin Luther King. So when external environment conflicts with your core values or with the humanistic approach, reaffirming the commitment to dignity, empathy, and individual potential will provide you the clarity and the direction that you need to move forward without the dissonance, without the anger.

This grounding will help the cynicism and the burnout that's all around us.

Strategic adaptation and advocacy to overcoming these challenges often requires finding practical and strategic ways to introduce humanistic values into resist. Environments, , changes all around us each every day. So, , this might involve incremental change, such as fostering trust in small groups, promoting inclusive leadership, and of course advocating for mental health resources.

So understand that change takes time. But consistently modeling and reinforcing human-centered principles can create that ripple effect over time. So to summarize this, when your world view is challenged as is happening these days, the path forward involves deep reflection. Uh, a reaffirmation of values and purpose and adaptive action.

You know, we don't want things to be done through anger or hatred. So overcoming such challenges isn't about winning debates or winning arguments. It's about embodying and sustaining your principles in a way that invites progress and change even in complex or resistant systems. The way that you can speak to people is through listening to their values and feelings.

When you restate and reframe their values and their feelings, they feel heard.

We need wise leadership because the complexity and unpredictability of today's world demands much, much more than a reliance on AI or a chat GPT. Wise leadership requires depth and judgment and ethical clarity. , I've known a few wise leaders. They've been my mentors, and especially in the leadership academy as well.

They go beyond short-term goals for self-interest. They understand the broader impact of their decisions on people, communities, and future generations and future leaders. Workplaces and societies facing constant change, polarization and systemic challenges wise, leadership can provide stability and perspectives and the capacity to guide others with both intellect.

And compassion. So what I am advocating for is for leaders to get wise and foster trust, empathy, and psychological safety. And these are the qualities that are critical in moving forward for, uh, collaboration, for innovation, and especially for resilience. And finally, why is leadership, I think, is crucial for addressing systemics and ethical dilemmas.

Um, whether it's in business, politics, social life, problems like inequality. . IT and tech disruption, , and influence, , don't really have easy solutions. They do require wise leaders who can hold, , tension through grace and navigate ambiguity.

Act through humility, courage, and wisdom. Because without wise leadership we really do risk reinforcing shallow and reactive systems, , that serve the few at the expense of the many. And with it we do have a chance to create sustainable just and human centered. Futures.

   right now I wanna just shift gears a little bit. Let's talk about , your latest. Work this wisdom to know the difference.   , it talks a little bit about society and over being overwhelmed by information and it introduced me to the term perspicacious intelligence.  So share some more about this with our listeners.

This was an SAT word that I absolutely fell in love with. I had no idea what it was when I was. Sitting there in that wooden chair with a wooden desk. It was a Saturday morning senior year of high school, but when I got home, I quickly looked it up in my dictionary and it's stuck with me all these years.

So perspicacity means discernment. And the very first time that, uh, perspe Cassity was in a job description was, um, uh, I researched, this was in the 1960s for a job description for an astronaut. So I put this together with intelligence, and I call this perspicacious intelligence, and that refers to a type of sharp, insightful intelligence that's marked by the ability to turn that perception.

Remember earlier I said for humans his perception, perception, perception. So perspicacious intelligence can turn that. Perception into perspective and understanding things through clarity. This is subtle. This is complex, and this requires attention to hidden truths. This is discernment. The word perspicacious means having a ready insight into an understanding of things.

So when we combine this with intelligence, the phrase emphasizes not just raw intellect, but the quality of insight, keen observation, sound judgment, and the ability to read between the lines. Someone with perspicacious intelligence can quickly grasp the essence of a situation. They can also, uh, detect underlying patterns.

Or anticipate outcomes that others might totally miss. So it's the kind of intelligence that goes beyond facts or formulas. It involves wisdom, intuition, and perceptiveness. For example, in leadership in psychology, perspicacious intelligence allows a person to understand unspoken group dynamics or an individual's motivations without needing everything to be explicitly.

Lee stated. In practical terms, perspicacious intelligence is essential in roles just like the astronaut. That requires strategic thinking, emotional insight, and ethical discernment. So it's not just about being book smart. It's about being deeply attuned to people, to contexts and to consequences. Now perspicacious intelligence and emotional intelligence are related, but distinct forms of intelligence.

Each of them focuses on different aspects of awareness and understanding. So emotional intelligence is recognizing, understanding and managing emotions. Sacious intelligence is about deep insight, sharp perception, especially in complex or subtle situations, the ability to grasp hidden meanings and detect those patterns,

that's a helpful, I think, not only definition, but puts it into some context.  Is there more that you can tell us about how we might think of Perspicacious intelligence in terms of its potential impact on career development?

Worldview and perspicacious intelligence work together in powerful, complimentary ways for counselors, especially in fields like career mental health or organizational counseling. When these two are integrated, they shape not only how a counselor understands their clients, but also how they navigate complex human issues through clarity, depth, and ethical grounding.

So I'm asking you today to use your worldview as a guiding compass. Uh, a counselor's worldview, their core beliefs about human nature, purpose, values, and meaning, uh, can provide a. Wonderful foundation for how they approach their work. For example, a counselor, the humanistic worldview views clients as inherently capable of growth and self-actualization.

This belief system shapes the counselor's growth goals for empowerment and meaning making. And how they define success in the counseling process. It also informs ethical choices, cultural sensitivity, and how power dynamics are handled in the counselor client relationship. Now, while worldview offers direction, perspicacious intelligence is the tool for perception and insight.

It allows counselors to quickly recognize unspoken emotional states and psychological patterns, understand the subtle interactions between personal values, identity, and behavior. And discern when a client's choices or narratives conflict with their deeper needs or goals. So the sharp to intuitive insight helps counselors to move past the surface level issues to address what truly matters to the client's soul.

Often identifying growth opportunities or blind spots that aren't immediately obvious.

I truly want there to comradery, to gather worldview and perspicacious intelligence can enable all of us to to be both principled and perspective. We want to all grow as counselors and as human beings to move from perception to perspective, to perspicacity, to wisdom. In essence, worldview gives counselors the why and Sacious intelligence gives them the how.

So together they create a counseling approach that is both meaningful and deeply effective and effective. Counseling, as we all know, requires a thoughtful balance of empathy inside ethics and strategy. Some of the strategies that work for me are to cultivate deep listening, and this matters so much because it allows me to hear what's not being said and to draw attention to deeper item.

And you can say things like, uh, prompts, like, I'm sensing there's something more beneath what you're saying. Would you like to explore this together?

Use insight based questioning. That's another strategy. Ask open-ended questions. Always don't, don't ask closed ended questions or ask very few closed ended situations. Um, questions. I'm sorry. So an example, what part of you feels energized by that decision that you just made? And is there a part of you that feels censor?

I want you to anchor in your ethical and humanistic world views, and this matters so much because a clear worldview will help you stay grounded. Don't forget about. The integration of systems thinking that big, big picture that can empower clients, that can empower counselors, right? We want to empower you.

We want you to develop a presence based. Practice presence based because presence builds trust and it allows more perspicacious intelligence to come forward. Focus on your strengths and purpose. Focus on your client's strengths and purpose, whatever your role is. Counselor, coach, guide, challenger, advisor.

Maintain cultural humility and maintain that. Curiosity, please. Because clarity and purpose, along with your knowledge is so very important to discern the energy within you, the energy between you and your client, the energy between you and your company. So encourage storytelling model and encourage lifelong learning to everybody.

 This is so timely  so timely in our career development work, but I think in all of our relationships  that we are a part of , in our day-to-day interaction with the world    Dr.

Ives as we close out this conversation today, uh, is there  a parting message  that you'd like to give our listeners?

So I want everybody to integrate these constructs that we've talked about today., I want people to understand all these definitions very specifically that. It's time now that society and globally, we know that it's time for wise leadership. The gurus of India that were so quiet and yet had so much wisdom to share.

At the right opportune moment, and without anger and without strife. We want wise leadership, leadership that balances deep insight, ethical clarity, and compassion. We want wisdom that integrates knowledge, experience, empathy, and good solid judgment. And perspicacious intelligence, that sharp, insightful form of intelligence and discernment that's characterized by keen perceptions, the ability to understand , the complex, the subtle and hidden aspects of all situations.

And especially to have a grounding worldview made up of your schema and your beliefs, your values that shape how you interpret and interact with this beautiful world. I want you to construct a worldview that influences goals and ethics and behaviors that provides a guide, a guiding framework for understanding life inside of you life around you.

True leadership is a connection of vision and heart where it sharpens sight meets the quiet depth of wisdom rooted in. A worldview that honors the sacred worth of every soul. I want you to, through dignity, appreciate the cathedral of wisdom that resides within you.

Listeners, please be sure you take a look at our show notes for this episode. There are resources there from Dr. Ives and more information about her work.

Thank you so much.